Z-Wave experience?

JonFo · Post by **JonFo** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:43 pm

Hi Scott,

Good to see some more HB plug-ins in the works.

I just switched my HT over to Z-Wave (from unreliable X10). So far just been using the Intermatic controllers. But I plugged in the ACT USB controller and configured HB today and noticed that my setup has multiple 'Binary Switches' that do not seem supported by HB.

What's the process for adding additional device classes to the Z-Wave interface in HB?

Thanks

JonFo · Post by **JonFo** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:26 pm

JonFo wrote:... I plugged in the ACT USB controller and configured HB today and noticed that my setup has multiple 'Binary Switches' that do not seem supported by HB.
What's the process for adding additional device classes to the Z-Wave interface in HB?

Never mind.

A Z-Wave 'Switch' (vs a dimmer) is 100% compatible with an applience plug-in module ( Intermatic HA02).

Now, what about thermostats ?

Cheers,

Post by **ScottBot** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:57 pm

JonFo wrote:Now, what about thermostats ?

Thermostats would be nice. What about it Meedio

Anyone interested in testing an Insteon plugin, see this post.

Steve Horn · Post by **Steve Horn** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:37 am

Scott, thanks for the Insteon work, and I hope someone will pick up the request for beta testing. I don't have anything Insteon, and honestly had been leaning heavily toward Z-Wave. I will be upgrading my security system this year and found a controller that has a Z-Wave module, allowing the system to 'do lighting things' in response to intrusion, zone activity, etc. But it's possible that I might migrate to Insteon too and phase out X-10 altogether. Anyway, it sounds like that there is enough HB+Insteon interest out there that someone will step up and help. And the added plug-in will enhance the Housebot product.

Thanks again,

Steve Horn · Post by **Steve Horn** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:56 pm

Scott, I'm interested in your comment about Insteon over Z-Wave due to it's 2-way capability. Presumably that means that HB could 'poll' an Insteon device for its status; basically a pseudo closed loop operation. Is there any more to it than that? I still like the Z-wave, partly because the devices are available from several sources; we're not locked in to SmartHome (where from what I've seen the products are over-priced.). But I need to do more research on both protocols before I decide which direction to go.

Post by **ScottBot** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:47 pm

Steve,

Up until a few weeks ago, I was sold on Z-Wave too. However, in looking over the Insteon stuff, I'm starting to lean that direction.

If SmartHome can offer competitive pricing, it doesn't really matter to me if I can get it from only them (although Home Depot is also reselling them). The fact may be that the mfg costs for Insteon may be well enough below Z-Wave that they can offer good pricing. I have one of theseon order and I'm VERY interested to see how it works and what kind of quality their "ICON" class switches really have. For $20, it's a pretty good price. I love the fact that it is a true rocker style switch instead of the traditional -- always press the top -- style that X10 and Z-Wave use.

As for the 2-way comment, I'm not sure it's entirely accurate. it is based on my early experience with the Z-Wave development (things may have changed since then) and my initial experience with Insteon. The HouseBot plugins for Z-Wave and the new Insteon ones, both allow you to request the status of a switch. I'm still unclear on whether Insteon will send a status out when a switch is manually changed (I just have a plugin module). Their dimmers state that they are 2-way, but I'm not sure if that's from a status request ONLY, or whether they send the status unsolicited, which would make it no better off than the Z-Wave.

Steve Horn · Post by **Steve Horn** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:54 pm

Thanks for the info. I am not biased against SmartHome, but they would have to be more price competative than I've seen in the past (like comparing them to Worthington). But Worhington does not carry Insteon, although I found another site that does... and there may be more. $20 for a Insteon compatible dimmer is great. You need to report back on your findings.

I was reading a little more on Z-Wave in the Elk literature. Seems that you cannot poll the device. Also, the Z-wave network will only report back a status change if the controller itself made the change. That is, if the switch is manually changed or a remote Z-Wave controller changes a device's state, the ELK controller will never know it. Presumably this would also be true for the HB interface. All that said, maybe Insteon (or ICON) IS the way to go. One of the priomary reasons I was leaning toward Z-Wave was that the is a HB plugin for it. Well, now you've muddied the soup by developing the Insteon plugin.

... I need to check Home Depot here - I had not expected them to carry this kind of stuff. OR maybe an Atla store the next time I'm over there getting my car serviced (that's another story...)

JonFo · Post by **JonFo** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:01 am

Insteon might be interesting, the prices sure are.

However, I was burned so badly by the low quality of the Switchlink V1's (you know the $70 X10 jobs they used to sell) that I'm leery of trying them again. It's not just X10 unreliability, it was the switches themselves flaking out after two years.

So far, the Intermatic Z-wave dimmers and modules have been such a breath of fresh air, as they just plain work. Every time.

Using HB polling, I find I can get the status of my switches when I need to know. So Not too worried about lack of notification.

The one downside is the switches LED’s flicker when being polled, and it’s a bit distracting in the dark theater.

Looking forward to more z-Wave devices in ‘06. We’ll see what’s announced at CES this week.

Post by **ScottBot** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:42 am

Steve Horn wrote:Seems that you cannot poll the device. Also, the Z-wave network will only report back a status change if the controller itself made the change. That is, if the switch is manually changed or a remote Z-Wave controller changes a device's state, the ELK controller will never know it. Presumably this would also be true for the HB interface.

That's not true of Z-Wave or the HouseBot plugin. If you change the switch manually, the poll will reflect the new state. It's probably just a limitation for the ELK controller.

I haven't seen the Insteon in a Home Depot store (but I haven't looked). I did, however, see them listed online from homedepot.com.

Post by **ScottBot** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:47 am

JonFo wrote:Insteon might be interesting, the prices sure are.
However, I was burned so badly by the low quality of the Switchlink V1's (you know the $70 X10 jobs they used to sell) that I'm leery of trying them again. It's not just X10 unreliability, it was the switches themselves flaking out after two years.

I too have had excellent results with the Z-Wave switches. I'm very curious to test the quality of the ICON Insteon switches to see how they stand up against Z-Wave.

Looking forward to more z-Wave devices in ‘06. We’ll see what’s announced at CES this week.

One nice thing about Insteon from a market standpoint, is now there are two competing (three if you want to count ZigBee) technologies. This should help pricing for us consumers.

Post by **ScottBot** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:34 pm

If anyone is curious, I received my Insteon ICON dimmer switch the other day. It was only $20 (A non-automated dimmer costs as much), so I wasn't really expecting too much.

I'm really pleased with the quality and performance so far. It's not as configurable as the non-ICON line, but should satisfy all of my needs for a controllable dimmer switch.

It allows you to set the default on level, and also lets you go to full on by pressing the "on" button twice quickly. The ramp rate is pretty fast, but OK. It has a single green led to indicate the switch is OFF (so you can find it in the dark).

The paddle doesn't give true rocker action like it is advertised. It's true that you press the top to turn on and the bottom to turn off, but the switch rebounds back the the center position after pressed. It's no big deal really, nobody looks at the state of the switch to figure out if the light is on or not, but it's still inconsistent with standard switches.

Also, it doesn't send a status report when the switch is pressed. I'm guessing that none of the switches do this because I saw a note in the developers manual that stated the "Status Report" command was a reserved for future command. So until the future is here, I will have to poll the switch for it's status.

Post by **ScottBot** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:04 am

ScottBot wrote:Also, it doesn't send a status report when the switch is pressed. I'm guessing that none of the switches do this because I saw a note in the developers manual that stated the "Status Report" command was a reserved for future command. So until the future is here, I will have to poll the switch for it's status.

After playing around with this a bit more, I have discovered that if I link the switch to the controller, it will send group notifications to the controller when the switch is changed! I supposed it should have dawned on me earlier to link the stupid things together to enable the switch to send to the controller.

Now I can have the HouseBot devices auto-update their properties when switches are changed locally without having to poll them for status. This is a huge advantage for me and definitely gives Insteon an advantage over Z-Wave now.

Steve Horn · Post by **Steve Horn** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:17 pm

Scott, thanks for the ICON review. Certainly, its price is a major advantage, and if the quality is good, then it may be the way to go (vs. Z-Wave). Its not clear to me how ICON differs from the top-of-the-line INSTEON devices. What functionality is missing? Sounds the polling and status reporting is a non-issue. So is it just cosmetics and ergonomics (true rocker vs. fake rocker)?

Post by **ScottBot** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:35 pm

If you go to the Smarthome page for the icon switch, and then click on the "Click here for more product info" link, it gives a nice table that shows the differences.

Steve Horn · Post by **Steve Horn** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:47 pm

Based on the ICON info and prices, looks like the Insteon protocol is the way to go. So what do I need - a Powerlinc controller ($49) and <whatever> switch devices? Also, the ramp rate: 0.1 sec. Is it really THAT fast?? Might as well be instantaneous. And is that ramp soft (?) on AND off?

Seems a shame to pay an additional $20 (for the INSTEON version) to get true soft on and off with a reasonably slow ramp rate (and additional load rating, and more LEDs).