SWRemote vs Windows 8

[Richard Naninck]

Recently I found out that the HB theme editer can only hold 99 panels. At 100 it displays an out of memory message. I discussed this woth Scott and it does not appear to be HouseBot related. So it could be Windows related than. I created over 100 tabs in Excel and no problems there. I had hoped Windows 7 wouldn't show this behaviour, but after a quick test, the same thing happens. So themes cannot grow larger than 99 panels!!!

While looking at Windows 8 tablet demo's I started wondering how the SWRemote would work on that platform. Would an alphalist become touchscreen friendly? In other words; would we be able to finger scroll through a list instead of using the dragbars? If a W8 Metro friendly SWRemote would be a fact, I guess HouseBot's future would be fact again

[Steve Horn]

This is a rather offbeat question, but is there a way to "share" panels across themes? Or could that be a new feature... should there ever be such a thing again. My thinking is that one theme could serve as a donor/host for panel capacity for another theme that has exceeded the 99 limit. Admittedly, I don't know how any of this works - and prefer to keep it that way - But I've thought about this before, not as relief for the 99 panel limit but rather to share panels that two or more themes have in common. Think weather panel or speaker zone selection panel. Just asking...

[Richard Naninck]

Steve,

You cannot create two themes and stitch them together. The SWRemote can handle more than 99 panels. It's the theme editer that can't. The SWRemote and theme editer load a single XML file. It contains all kinds of dependancies which would be lost if a theme consisted of two xml files. If a theme consisted of two xml files you wouldn't be able to do a panel jump or select a context if the selected panel sits in the other xml file. Probably this won't be an issue for the majority, it's just that my theme grew large over the years. I merged some panels and dropped back to 92 panels again. However, it is not nice to know that I am bouncing against a limit which precludes me of expanding my system without having to sacrifice something else first and I have still some stuff on my todo list;) (like solar panels etc)
Anyways, it didn't seem to be a HouseBot issue, but for sure Windows 7 didn't fix it and I don't think W8 won't do so as well.

[Timoh]

Working with two theme XML files won't work, as you say... But.... What if you copied & pasted the panel from one XML into another. Presuming you get it in the right place, you'd get your extra +100 panels. Of course you would not be able to edit them, but if the swremote can handle it, then it should display.

I think Steve could be on to something as a "new" feature... Something like an "inlcude" other theme directive. In other words, when swremote loads a theme, it could be made aware it would have to load another theme. Something like dependencies. Some work would need to done on the panel change button to give the ability to panel change to another theme, but in theory....

Tim

[Richard Naninck]

That feature would work it around but would also mean an edit nightmare. I guess fixing the > 99 panels bug would be more constructive. However I don't see it happen anytime soon since development is not really going on and it would only help me in this case..

I manually added some panels directly into the xml file and the SWRemote handled it fine. Maybe theme panels could be merged on the same platform since all the dbase ID's etc remain consistent. Just copying the xml code from a theme panel into somebody elses setup causes loads of problems.

I guess you would have to have some feature where all theme dependancies would be stored in an xml file as a basis for a new (extra) theme AND you would need an xml stitcher to get the two editable xml files to work together. pretty advanced work around

[Steve Horn]

I've concluded that HB is basically on life support. In a previous life, applications that I supported that were in this state were only allowed to be touched by developers if the app was dead in the water. That's the vibe I'm getting here. Sad.

[Richard Naninck]

I still use MS Office 2003.. Why? Because it just works and 2007 isn't even a better product. In other words; great products sometimes don't need updates. HouseBot is one of them. The overall product could be lots better if the SWRemote would become iDevice proof. Maybe html 5 is the key, but hopefully some day the SWRemote itself becomes full proof 2011+. I know I will use it for many years to come even without the neet swiping etc.

[Steve Horn]

We're drifting OT here, but...
I too am using long-in-the-tooth hardware and software, primarily because I'm cheap. And I'll continue to use HB because of its flexibility, power, and value. But that said, there's something unsettling (to me anyway) about the realization that our only support is this forum (And look how active that is.), and that there likely won't be any new bells and whistles added to HB unless the forum community themselves can and will develop them. And those bells and whistles must be built around the existing HB "bones".

[Timoh]

There is indeed something "unsettling" about where HB is right now. Very static and only being evolved adhoc with work arounds like the webremote I'm writing. The downside to that is that, when a user develops something, it's 90% for there own needs, and 10% for everyone elses needs. And that comes from experience in the webremote. I'm going to make sure my themes work nicely and be happy with it.... If other peoples' themes work too, that's bonus material.

Back to themes.... If I survive long enough or if HB survives long enough, I'm going to rewrite the theme editor into a stand-alone module. There 's a whole bunch of stuff on my webremote todo list which is web based. For example, embedding an http link, such as to a webcam, in the webremote. Or simply pulling in a weather widget to the theme, without having to create a device for it. I'm planning on doing some trickery to incorporate that functionality, but it would be nice to edit it natively.
Tim

[Steve Horn]

Tim, I applaud your creativity and skill and certainly hope that you and the others that create good HB apps for the "rest of us" are around for a long time. Because that's what HB's future depends upon.
Your point about apps that are shared but basically developed with 'self' in mind is a good one. Developing and sharing is a two edged sword as you already know... or soon will. You're helping to perpetuate HB and share your "labor of love" with other HB users. But you may likely end up supporting your "product" for as long as you can possibly stand it for those of us that don't have the skill sets. (And that is maybe why we don't hear from Scott anymore.)

Wandering further OT...
Not to take away anything from your webremote work, which I think is still (dare I say) crucial to building the HB user community, as well as the future of HB (no pressure there )... I just received an iPad (destined as a Christmas gift to my son's family, but I thought I needed to ensure that it survived the shipment from China). I installed a remote desktop (RDP) app and was able to use it to link to a SWRemote theme running on my HB server. I was amazed at how well that functioned as a generic wireless remote. Certainly, there are reasons why a browser-based interface is preferable - portability across hardware (smart phones, tablets, whatever..) comes to mind. But for someone with an iPad, going with RDP is certainly an acceptable option. That said, DON'T STOP the Webremote work!

[Richard Naninck]

Steve, actually you got back right on topic again with the iPad. I use the LogMeIn app to remote desktop and mirror my swremote like that on my iphone, laptop or any other pc connected to the internet when I am not @ home. It's just nice to run the SWRemote as is. But the remote doesn't natively run on Android or an iDevice unless html 5 becomes fact. However when the new Windows 8 software is released, it will run on tablets and hopes are up that the swremote will run natively again.

And now OT again... Since you own your first iDevice now and left the club of 5 people that didn't, you may want to look again into the iTunes post I wrote some days ago. Very nice to be able to run your music or internet radio through the iPad's app "Remote" while your PC playes through iTunes.

[Steve Horn]

Well. I "own" the iDevice... until Christmas, when I'll be rejoining the 5 people in the CONUS without an iDevice. I did, in addition to the RDP experiment this morning, link the iPad to iTunes running on the HB server using Remote. (ITunes was put there originally after I got an (1st generation) Apple TV as a gift (ironically from the same son who is getting the iPad.) Anyway, I piddled with it this morning too - running iTunes through the Winamp "server" on the HB server box. Not as nice as your Jukebox app, but functional. Sadly, I won't get to your use of it until I get my own iPad.

[Timoh]

And way OT. HP is having another fire sale of their discontinued HP TouchPad... 10" @ $99. It'll be on thire ebay store starting at 6pm this Sunday. Central time. Limit two per. (edit: I just found out it's the refurb models. But at $99. Still good.)

Step #1... Wipe WebOS and install Android.

WRT html5, that is my ultimate goal. The problem is, I can barely spell html, let alone tell the differences between html 3 4 or 5... Or even if I'm utilizing html 5 techniques.

Tim

[Richard Naninck]

@Steve:

X-mas is still two weeks away. You can't live without an iDevice past that time

[Steve Horn]

@Steve:

X-mas is still two weeks away. You can't live without an iDevice past that time

I know - that thought has already occurred to me. The thing is addictive and I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WITH IT YET! (I did spend more time ringing its neck to get it's MAC address out of it for my router than it took to install RDP and Remote.)