HouseBot

Hi,

Thought I'd post one more question before giving up on this forum altogether...

I have the USB interface version the Smarthome Insteon PLM, but it really is a USB to serial converter inside. However, I seem to notice Housebot "losing" communication with the Insteon PLM and I am wondering if it's just a poor USB/serial implementation (or just poorly written drivers). Should I send this unit back and go with a Insteon PLM that has a serial interface and use a serial board?

The reason why I suspect a poor driver/USB interface is when I lose communication, when I try to quit Housebot, the application seems hung and not want to free up the COM port if I force quit the application via task manager. Only a reboot seems to cure this hung communication problem?

Thanks to those can offer some inputs...

That's interesting, as I have had issues for quite awhile with Housebot's not completely shutting down when/if I close it. I have to go into Task Manager and kill the HB process. I've never been able to identify what was holding it open. Maybe it is the PLM or its driver. If you disable the PLM Hardware Interface then close HB, Does it close gracefully or do you have to kill it to free up the COM port?
As to your problem, I have not had any issues with the PLM losing comm... That I know of. I wonder if it has anything to do with you using the PLM as an X10 transceiver vs. Insteon. You could try disabling all your x10 devices or tasks, whatever it takes to stop all X10 activity, but leave the PLM enabled. Then see if the PLM loses comm. Or try tracing the PLM activity. That might shed some light on what triggers the problem.

I have been using the serial PLM for quit some time now. It seems pretty solid. I send both X10 and Insteon commands. Though my command rate per day is probably pretty low. I think there is a setting for back to back command delay. I seem to remember Scott adding something back when I had trouble when he first coded up the device interface. I'll have to look to see if he kept it in there and what I have it set to. Perhaps you can try to increase the delay.

Is anyone using the USB PLM that has the dual interface (sends on both power line and RF). I have trouble sometimes when my daughter plugs in her laptop to charge. It's sucking down the power line signal causing long delays and communication problems with my Insteon devices. I would like to switch my devices to the dual interface ones so they mostly communicate via RF. I want to be certain HouseBot supports the dual interface USB PLM before I invest in one.

Mark

Lot of good questions here! :)

Steve:

When I had an earlier version of Housebot, I've never had to use task manager to force it to quit. Now when the comm with the Powerlinc Insteon PLM goes down, I usually have to reboot the machine to recover. This is extremely annoying as this is a server with other functions. I shouldn't have to shut down the machine to recover. If I try to toggle enable/disable in Housebot for the powerlinc hardware interface, Housebot crashes and leaves a process running that I can't seem to kill in task manager. I suspect it's deadlocked with an open comm port somehow. Again, rebooting seems to fix it. But what's annoying is that I'll lose comm within a matter of hours. Not sure if it's the Powerlinc implementation with the built in usb/serial converter or what. If I can't resolve this, I'll try the powerlinc serial PLM version but I'll have to get a PCI serial card as I don't have enough serial ports on the server.

I could try not sending any X10 commands and see if that holds off my problem. I've tweaked the intercommand delay parameter - which doesn't seem to help much. I'm going to try tweaking the serial port parameters. The usb/serial converter uses FTDI drivers - there are a lot of buttons to twiddle there (buffer sizes, latency timeouts, etc) so I'm trying to change some of them in hopes of improvement (if it's a suspect driver or configuration - maybe this will resolve it).

What are the chances that I have a bad PLM unit??? I mean, it does send X10 and Insteon commands and stuff, but could a defective unit exhibit anomalous behavior that I'm experiencing?

Kilowatt:
I am still new to Insteon - it seems I'll need to get an RF access point to take advantage of the dual band capability. The powerlinc PLM modem I have is dual band but I don't have any RF devices. I had thought insteon would repeat the powerline commands/responses using a mesh topology using the powerline, including across phases, but I guess not? I have an X10 phase coupler at the dryer - not sure if that is capable of bridging phases for Insteon powerline commands. if it doesn't, I'll have to get an RF access point to couple the phases. I do notice it taking a while to send commands though, but I'm not sure if that's my flaky PLM or just noisy powerline. Still trying to calibrate this setup.

I really wish my original powerlinc PLC (X10 only) hadn't died - it was working so well with housebot!! With this new powerlinc PLM, I feel I have taken a huge step back. I can't even see x10 traffic with this new setup.. grrrr.

I can't remember ever reading of anyone having any significant trouble with INSTEON transmission reliability or delays. I've had one Insteon switch fail, and it was their cheaper Icon line. That said, my guess is on you having a bad PLM. But its easy for me to say that since its not my money.

Your first para reminded me that I had had serial problems that required reboots. I finally replaced the serial card with a different brand and that fixed the issue. Not sure if was a driver issue or hardware. Updating the driver did not help. As info, I replaced a Startech with a Rosewill 4 RS232 port card. But if you stay with USB, that's a non issue.

When I first converted to Insteon, and that was before their dual band development, the strong recommendation was to install two access points, which I did. Not sure it was necessary, but I cannot argue with the reliability, including across phases.

Unfortunately, the Insteon PLM with the USB is actually a RS232 with a USB to serial converter built in. The reboots sound eerily like your earlier experiences with the RS232 board. I'll try an RMA and get another USB version of the PLM and see if it helps, if not, then I'll try the RS232 version.. thanks for a recommendation on which RS232 PCI card to look at.

Regarding phase coupling - I did some poking around the Smarthome website. They still sell hardline phase couplers - one that you bridge at the main breaker box. They still sell plug in passive couplers (at the 220V outlet). I've got one at the dryer that I used for my X10 setup. I'm wondering if it's still good with the Insteon. When my PLM is co-operating, I'm able to control the lights. But not always successfully - can't be certain is the PLM or the powerline noise (maybe the phase coupler I have for my X10 doesn't work as well for Insteon signals).

I'm using one of the dryer X-10 active phase couplers for my X-10 devices. It does not repeat the Insteon signals. I have a couple of the Insteon access points (one plugged into each phase) for repeating the Insteon stuff. Every so often I find the phase coupler gets hung up and X10 signals don't get repeated. I have to unplug it to reset it.

I may not have enough Insteon devices yet for the mesh topology repeating to overcome my signal attenuation. It seems I have a few devices around the house that either suck down the signal or generate enough noise to interfere. They effects my X10 stuff also which is why I started testing out Insteon in the first place. That is why I was hoping the RF signals of the dual band stuff might help.

I guess I'll have to get one of the newer PLMs and give it a try.

BTW the inter command delay setting I mentioned is still there for the PLM hardware interface. Mine is currently set to 500ms. What do the rest of you have it set to. Perhaps mine is still a bit conservative.

My Insteon inter command delay is at the default 400 ms. I never felt the need to diddle with it.

IiRC, my X10 issues, using an ADI Ocelot or leopard, not a PLM, were due to a multi speed blower motor on the AC, which I added a filter to (still have it. Anyone need it?), and numerous surge suppressors and a UPS on the HB server that sank a lot of the X10. Cheap PC power supplies will do that too. I also had a X10 phase bridge at the breaker box. All of that went away when I converted to Insteon.

Hi All,

I thought I would chime in here...I have not been on the forum in a while. I am very frustrated with my USB PLM. Same model as the one mentioned here that uses the FTDI drivers. My PLM will sometimes lockup and when i try to disable it in HB then re-enable, I get a COM Port Access Denied Error. Only a reboot fixes it when this happens. I have tried lots of things. I have also noticed that X10 transmission from the PLM is very weak in comparison to my old Ocelot. After talking with Insteon and doing research around I found some issues with the PLM in that if the powerline is noisy it can lock up. So I purchased some USB extenders from Monoprice. These seem to help as I was able to move the PLM away from UPS's, powerstrips, and my HVAC gear. The problem still arises sometimes..which I hate but I still use EventGhost and have a button on my software remote to do a reboot (which I hate having to do).

More on X10 performance. I only have 1 X10 switch right now....it is very slow and I always get the Error: Error receiving response. Command code does not match pending command.

My Inter-Command Delay is set to 400.....i will change it to 500 to see if that helps

v/r

Kevin

Hi All -

Sorry for being away so long. I have some updates to share..

Two highlights to share, longer version follows for the curious...

1) I RMA'd my Powerlinc Modem - the new one seems to work MUCH better. No lockups requiring reboots.

2) Housebot does not seem to see X10 information coming on the powerline. That is, if I have an X10 device that sends a message (ie. a switch) to another X10 device, Housebot w/ Powerlinc v2 won't see this traffic.

Longer version...

1) My original Smarthome Powerlinc modem died. Housebot + X10 Powerlinc original was GREAT! (for me anyway). I was able to sniff the X10 messages that were flying around in housebot and had scripts to act on specific sequences. However, my X10 performance with the the Powerlinc V2 (Insteon) is mixed. I can send X10 commands just fine but I can't seem to see them (unless I do a status query of a specific device). So these sniffing scrips no longer work since they can't see anything.

About my replacement... for a while, my original purchase of the Powerlinc V2 seemed to lock up after a while - it would refuse to respond to any queries and forced me to do a reboot (unplugging it didn't even work!). As a long shot, I RMA'd the modem back to Smarthome and got a replacement (same exact model with USB interface). THIS time.. it behaved! I was surprised. I've been able to run for MONTHS now without having it lock up and force me to reboot. So... something screwy was going on with my first Powerlinc v2 purchase... bad firmware or bad hardware... who knows. The replacement firmware is 9B - can't remember what the original one (one that I sent back) was...

So... now that I've had it for a while, my Insteon performance is decent, I would not call it a panacea. I have trouble with CFL lights. I can turn them on, but can't always turn them off. I have an odd situation where I have two CFL lights turn on from a single switch and it turns out the beats from the higher harmonic frequencies between the two lights interfere with the powerline communication band (after some reading on the internet about this). Solution to this will be a leviton noise block... haven't gotten around to it, but I've used those with good results in my old house for undercabinet lights with electronic power supplies.

Re the CFLs, I'd be suspicious of switching them with anything other than a dry contact type of device, like the Insteon relay switch. Cant recall what the designation is. As you know, CFLs are weird. So if you cannot relieve the problem by a signal conditioner, try swapping out the switchlinc for the relaylinc(?). I'm using several here, but for switching transformer powered things, flourescent aquarium light, pond lighting, LV landscape lighting. I've never had any success switching CFL lighting with Insteon switchlinc.
Sorry, I don't have any experience with the PLM and X10. I probably should work with it, as I still have some X10 stuff I use for Christmas lighting. But can never get to it.... And it's once a year.

Steve -

1) I am using the Insteon Appliancelinc switches for the CFLs. The problem is once you turn on the CFL's, some of them generate enough noise to prevent the "off" command getting through. This impacts both Insteon and X10 commands. I have the odd situation where two CFLs turn on at the same time from one switch and the harmonics cause a beating effect (resonance) that peaks somewhere in the frequencies for the powerline commands. Not a big deal, more of an annoyance - have to turn them off manually but can turn them on with timed event.

2) I used to do Xmas lights with X10. Now I just use electronic timers. I found a good deal at Target for a couple of these, just set it and forget it. Like you said, it's once a year - not worth dedicating expensive (relatively) automation hardware to Xmas lights for me.

Because of the quirks in X10 and Insteon signalling, I've come to rely less on the X10/insteon stuff. Also, partly because the house I moved into doesn't have many wall switches for outlets and I find the tablelincs to be a pain because people often leave the table lamps in an "off" state so automation is useless for trying to turn on a lamp that someone's turned off. I'm tempted to take out the switches in the table lamps but that'd have a very low WAF....

Maybe cheap CFLs? Not sure how to resolve that without a lot of trial and error. A more expensive, but ultimate, solution would be to convert to LEDs. It would be interesting, at least to me, to swap out one troublesome CFL for an LED to see if that helps. (I suspect CFLs are just an interim solution. As LEDs come down in cost, CFLs will eventually go away. Mercury disposal, dimming issues, color temp... Better than incandescent but that's about all, IMHO.)