Housebot, new construction

xport · Post by **xport** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:18 pm

I am planning to build a new home and all this home automation is very new but very intriguing to me. What I want to know is there any extra wiring to be run in the walls that is necessary to use the x10 module for lighting control etc...? Or is it just the boxes and switches that can be added afterwards.

So basically if I wanted to be able to control all the lights in the house from one PC does the builder need to run any extra wiring in the wall?

acheslow · Post by **acheslow** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:44 pm

Not for X10 (or Z-Wave); you'll just want to make sure that there is a neutral pulled to each switch. But if you are building new then now would be the time to pull Cat5 so that you could use a wired system instead of X10. The equipment will generally be more expensive but more reliable.

xport · Post by **xport** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:49 pm

cat5 to the wallplates for switches and to the area where the light fixutres would be? I was already planning on cat5 to each room for pc purposes.

acheslow · Post by **acheslow** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:39 pm

Just to the switches. With new protocols like Z-Wave you may never need to use it, but its much easier to have it there now then to retrofit it later.

sbass · Post by **sbass** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:56 pm

Mixing low voltage with high voltage in the same receptacles? I'm not an electrician, but aren't there some code issues with doing that?

Shawn

szsori · Post by **szsori** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:09 pm

I think it only matters if you're going to be running Power-over-Ethernet (PoE). Very few devices require that, though. I know that VoIP phones do if you don't want to use the power block, but then you'd still need a power switch or power injector.

In any case, his wiring guys will know if it's allowed or not anyway. He will probably have to get the plenum stuff (bit more expensive), but it'll be worth it.

acheslow · Post by **acheslow** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:10 pm

I'm not at electrician either but my understanding is that the National Electrical Code does permit low voltage and high voltage wiring in the same box if the low voltage wiring is used to control the high voltage load, which is the case for systems like Lutron and Centralite.

mangelsen · Post by **mangelsen** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:10 pm

If you are going to get it inspected, I beleive the code prohibits the two from being together. Either you have to split it up or have additional sheathing on the low voltage line.

I have installed a system using OnQs ALC lighting and I just ran the low-vo wires to the outside of the box. Or another thing you can do is add something attached to the lo-vo to pull it in after the inspector leaves. But I think by code it's illegal. Also, a lot of that depends on "the authority having jurisdiction" as stated in the NEC book. You could get an a-hole inspector that is out to prove something give you some guff.

I would recommend searching around a bit and deciding on a lighting solution if you are going to pull low voltage to the boxes. You might run into problems with 3-way and 4-way switches unless it's pulled right with certain technologies.

For the most part powerline communications would be a fairly safe technology to rely on. PCS has a new digital powerline communication technology out that seems to be more reliable. I haven't installed it yet but it seems like a good solution.

xport · Post by **xport** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:10 am

The builder has given me a price of 1200 to run cat 5 to all rooms. 4BR house. This seems high to me, is this reasonable?

mangelsen · Post by **mangelsen** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:44 am

It depends on how many wires, where they are being pulled, and how they are being pulled. If it's for lighting and one is going to each switch ands homerunned back to a panel it seems high being each room only has one light switch. I'd be willing to try to steer you as best as I can. For reference, I charge roughly $45 a drop for cat5e and I am low where I live. That also includes 1 Cat5e rated wall termination.

Watch builders though, in my experience in the biz, many don't know much about this stuff. Many of them have a hard time seeing past dollar signs also.

xport · Post by **xport** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:11 am

Okay, id prob need it run to 9 rooms. All converging in the garage in a patch panel/networking box.

Ideally what im thinking is have it in the house wherever there is a cable jack (htpc/xbox) and wherever there is a phone jack, for VoIP. I would also supplement that with an extra cat 5 jack in each room for pc use where there were gaps.

Im not sure ill run any for the lighting. Im cutting close to my budget already so I dont think i can afford the extra for the lighting, so ill prob look towards some wireless modules in the future.

Anyone have any ideas about where I could find out what building codes are in my area. I am perfectly capable of running this stuff myself, but the builder is concerned that one of the 8 scheduled code inspections might not pass once the cat5 was run by me (not a licensed professional) and thus hold up completion of the house.

mangelsen · Post by **mangelsen** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:11 am

Phones are usually run over category 5. I can help you pull what you need. I design and install all the stuff you are talking about. Sorry for the shameless plug, but check out my website for some info. I also just opened a little web store so you could buy the panel stuff yourself.

As far as code goes, where do you live? If you are up here in the north there are probably some codes on airtitght boxes. Other than that there will be nothing you can do to hold up production unless you run the wiring across the floor, he's just trying to prevent you from pulling it because he makes less money(usually 20-25% over the top of his subs).

As far as wiring. I would pull no less than one cat5 and one rg6 quad(or standard if your cheap) to each location. I would recommend pulling two cat5 and two rg6 to any location with a potentila pc.

As far as VOIP, if you put in the right panel config, you can switch between phones and data, route phone lines wherever, and so on.

Let me know if you want more help.

xport · Post by **xport** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:22 am

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are nowhere near wher I am building.

I am in Pennsylvania, Northeast area.

I appreciate the brainstorming.

I have run cabling for office networks before, but it was usually drop ceiling and wire ready walls, so thats the only thing i was worried about, residential building codes...

Why pull multiple cat5 and rg6 to each pc location?

mangelsen · Post by **mangelsen** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:38 am

I am in Minnesota. The codes are probably similar being they follow the NEC. and the climates can't be too far off. Residential is pretty basic. If you are going to try to read a code book it will just make your head spin. It's a bunch of legal jargon. Basically you will need to use airtight boxes and make sure you don't drill through anything important. Code is basically based on common sense so if it seems iffy, don't do it. And don't run low-voltage next to high voltage.

xport · Post by **xport** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:59 am

I just spoke to a local electric and telecom installer, basically told me there are no codes yet here. They are working on them, so he told me what to do to amke sure i would adhere to future codes and my ass would be covered.

1. Stay 8" from electrical wires, cross at 90 degrees wherever necessary.

2. Wiring box (in garage) needs to be 5 ft from your electrical circuit breaker.

3. All wires need to meet in a central location (ie garage wiring box)

4. Pull an extra 14" on each end.

There is a Leviton certification class here in a few weeks, might just take that and be certified.

Now if im doign this on my own, what are the procedure for running the cat5 for housebot and switches/fixtures?

HouseBot

Housebot, new construction

Housebot, new construction

cat5 to wallplates?